Speaker 1:

Hi, and welcome to The Insiders by durhamlane, where we get perspectives from industry thought leaders about strategies that are unifying marketing and sales cycles to help accelerate growth inside your world.

Simon Hazeldine:

Hello and welcome to The Insiders sales and marketing podcast. I’m Simon Hazeldine, a sales transformation strategist and sales performance consultant, helping my clients get more sales more often with more margin. I’m also a keynote speaker and author of a number of books on sales and negotiation. I’m your host, along with my co-host the one and only Richard Lane, who is the co-founder of durhamlane, who are an inside sales partner that help businesses to grow their revenue through an integrated sales and marketing methodology. So, Richard, I’m going to hand over to you to introduce our guest for this episode.

Richard Lane:

Thank you, Simon, and welcome to everyone and I’m absolutely thrilled to welcome Ryan Bott onto our podcast. Ryan is the global VP of inside sales and revenue at Sodexo and is always full of incredible insights. So, Ryan, welcome to you and no pressure there obviously and I’ll pass back to Simon to get us started.

Simon Hazeldine:

Fantastic, Ryan, great to have you with us. First question, so our listeners can go and get to know you a little bit. Could you give us a little bit of background on how you came to be in the position that you’re in now?

Ryan Bott:

Yeah. Thank you, sir and thank you, Richard, for that introduction. I’ll try and live up to that. How did I get to this position? It’s interesting, so I didn’t know who Sodexo was and about just over four years ago, I got a call out of the blue that someone told someone and said, “Oh, you should take a look at Ryan,” and I thought, “Wow, that was quite nice of them,” but I said, “Sodexo who?” And turns out it’s the 17th largest company in the world, 430,000 employees, 18 billion in revenue and it’s a fantastic company that’s headquartered out of Paris, France.

Ryan Bott:

And so, I started first there in a division called benefit and reward services, which is mostly software and employee engagement. And I guess I did something right, because then they said, “Well, why don’t you come help run this for the rest of the company? What we call the onsite business, which is the food and facilities.” Most people know us for that and so I’m having a wonderful time with a great team that I got to work with every day, that is impacting revenue. So, that’s ultimately how I got here, but there’s 20 years of journey before that.

Simon Hazeldine:

Because Richard and I, we have this little club that we call the happy trip up club that people often end up in sales and more sales, but also sales or marketing by accident.

Ryan Bott:

And that’s interesting you say that because people ask, “How did I get into the sales side and what’s interesting?” I went and got my masters, my MBA – Masters of Business Administration and at a university called Arizona State over here in the US. And anyway, I knew specifically that I wanted to be in the revenue side of the house, and I knew specifically that I wanted to be a leader. And so, people would ask me, “Well, what are you getting your MBA for? It was either finance or equities or stock” I said, “No, I’m going to be a sales leadership,” and I didn’t really know much beyond that, and I didn’t even know what that meant, to be honest.

Ryan Bott:

I just told people that was it and so I put it in my mind, and I kept going, and any chance I had to go lead some portion of revenue, whether it was inbound, outbound, whether it was pipeline, whether it was actual carrying a bag, closing, I did. And I probably forced my way into a couple situations that I shouldn’t have and luckily was given a chance and that led to more opportunity. So, it was a little bit by brute force and a little bit by just stick-to-itiveness, if you will, to get a really good job that I really love.

Simon Hazeldine:

And I think Arizona State is where Professor Robert Cialdini did all of his research that ended up in the book Influence if I recall. So, which is obviously a top 10 book recommendation for me, from all people in sales and marketing.

Ryan Bott:

Yeah, there’s some great professors there and some that have written, yes. So, influence is a perfect example.

Simon Hazeldine:

Now, from looking at your profile that you’ve won some awards for sales enablement programs, and I’d be really interested with that in mind. How do you regard or see the role of sales enablement in a modern organization?

Ryan Bott:

Yeah, thank you, that’s hats off to the team, we won that award. Basically, if you look at our boss as to our meeting. I have a couple peers that I work closely with and one of them, her name is Ann Percario and we both report up to Bruno he’s the chief sales and marketing officer and Bruno came in with this vision and said, “Okay, we really are going to redo everything and we’re going to build a centralized group that then puts the company in a trajectory of revenue.” And that was super fun because one of the things that was missing was a CRM. We had pockets of CRM, and if you could believe it, here’s the 17 largest company in the world, and we don’t really have a synchronized CRM. And so, Anne and her team led that effort.

Ryan Bott:

And so you had process that was missing, but then you also had pipeline that was really missing and there’s sort of a formula that I used to grow companies, we can talk about in a minute but one of the elements is pipeline process would put under what I call productivity, but pipeline was missing and so if I look at enablement and say, “What do you really have to do?” You need to get people productive, and I need to focus on pipeline. And if I can balance those two and get them going, then I’m improving the actual seller, right? I’m getting one unit to improve its output, if you will. And then I’m basically adding pipeline to go solve that. The third P if you will, there’s three Ps in this triangle, is the actual product.

Ryan Bott:

And this came from… I was listening to QBRs, quarterly business reviews and I was in my 75th QBR. Probably five years ago, four years ago, somewhere in there so, I mean, that’s quite a bit and internal QBRs are where salespeople stand up and they say, basically, three things in a QBR. They say, “Here’s what I did last quarter or didn’t do, here’s what I’m going to do this quarter, here’s my forecast, and here are the roadblocks that’s what I need to get there.” And that’s the basics, tenants of a QBR. And I had written down, captured in notes and then a spreadsheet, why when someone missed a deal, did they miss or missed their number? And you hear all sorts of things, and you hear classic things like, oh, it was price you another competitor, you hear a lot about product, and you start to hear pipeline and you, and there’s sure about 20 answers.

Ryan Bott:

And I took those answers and I boiled them down to basically three valid reasons. And I can tell you why I eliminated price, but price is not one of them, but it truly was three things. One is they didn’t have enough pipeline. They were good salespeople, they had a good product. They did not have enough pipeline. Two was the actual product, you had decent pipeline, you had a good salesperson, but no one wanted what you were selling. It didn’t fit a pain, right? You went and built a product or a service that nobody wanted, or nobody needed. Take the word want, I didn’t need it and the third one was their productivity. Meaning I’ve got great products and offers. We do have enough pipeline, but my salespeople stink, they don’t get it done.

Ryan Bott:

They’re not qualified, they don’t know what they’re doing and maybe not at all their fault. We haven’t trained them, we haven’t onboard them, call that productivity, right? They just weren’t getting the job done and by the way, they rarely say that in the QBR, they hardly ever say, well… We never said that, but that’s the other piece. So, I have focused on those three as part of enablement for a long time, even before I realized I was doing it and it’s, and it completely works. And if you’ll focus on those three, the results come. So, I try and improve, first identify which of those three is the issue in a company and then let’s focus on it.

Simon Hazeldine:

Fantastic. So, the three corners of the triangle pipeline, product, and productivity. So, you’d recommend that people take a look at those three as a starting point, which is fantastic. I think my memory of my early QBRs was just having a managing director that no matter how much preparation I did could always manage to ask me a question that I didn’t know the answer to. He has psychic ability. I think, no matter how hard I tried, he’d always ask a question and I would go, “I don’t know,” and I don’t think it was.

Simon Hazeldine:

I remember at one stage, he said to me, “I’m really sorry, Simon, I owe you an apology. I thought you were the account manager for this customer.” And I said, “Well, I am.” And he said, “Not based on the nonsense you’ve been talking for the last 30 minutes.” So, I’m sure your QBRs are a little bit more positive than that, Ryan.

Ryan Bott:

Oh, I don’t know. The one that completely jolted me and that actually made me a much better person, truly, was when my boss walking out of the QBR, looked at me and he said, “That was the worst QBR I’ve ever listened to,” and everything sank. And I said, “Okay, give me some feedback.” And I did, he gave me lots of feedback and said, “Here’s what you need to improve,” and it was that day that I really woke up and said, “Wow, I got to do a better job.”

Richard Lane:

While we’re on the topic, one of my most cringey QBRs when I was in corporate life, leading a team. I’d had a pretty disastrous quarter and I was in London and the QBR, and I was at customer meetings, and I had this QBR and I thought, “Oh, I’ll just do it from a Starbucks,” and it was really, really noisy. And in the end, they stopped it early and I got away with it because they never rescheduled it but that’s not something I recommend, frankly, but no.

Ryan Bott:

No.

Simon Hazeldine:

Just like to point out to our listeners, these are not necessarily recommendations of best practice, are they?

Richard Lane:

It’s always good to hear a mishap though, isn’t it? To understand what not to do so.

Simon Hazeldine:

Yeah, but it does. I think, right. It just on a side comment as well, it does show how very important feedback is for salespeople’s performance and how probably too many sales managers, sales leaders. It’s the happy land feedback. And sometimes, people don’t get that tough feedback sometimes, which can be necessary for people to understand how to do a great job, right?

Simon Hazeldine:

They got to understand what good looks like and where they’re falling short so I think it’s an important part of it. In terms of pipeline, so for you, when a qualified lead is handed over to a BDM or whatever the job title is. What process do you think needs to be in place for that to be done successfully? So, the ball doesn’t get dropped or the leads not utilized properly.

Ryan Bott:

Yeah, great question. I’ve written a few… There’s a few posts on LinkedIn that really hit the mark and go and get quite a bit of response and one of them on my LinkedIn that you can look up was about a BDR or an SDR handing over a lead. And I can’t remember it got something like nine or 10,000, maybe that’s too high. Every month, I re-imagined more like. I had 30,000, it’s probably a few, it’s five or 6,000, but it was… What I said in that post was whenever an SDR books a meeting, accept the meeting, okay? They have worked so completely hard and tirelessly to get that meeting. They have poked, they’ve prodded, they’ve worked out who to get ahold of.

Ryan Bott:

They’ve tried 10 people to get ahold of one. They’ve looked at three different versions of calendars and ultimately landed on a spot and then the salesperson has the audacity to say, “You know what, can you change that? I have my aunt’s birthday party.” And you’re thinking, “No, don’t, no,” because every time, and I tell you what happens every time as a leader, I’ve seen that happen. The client does not come back with the same positivity response, rate, energy, whatever you want to call it. They may come back, they’ll attend the meeting but they do not come back with the same reaction that they had when you first got them excited and you lose all momentum. I have never seen a rescheduled meeting recover. In fact, I’ve rarely seen, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a deal close when we had to reschedule.

Ryan Bott:

So first off, when you’re working to hand something off, make sure that as a salesperson, you accept the meeting and if you can’t, you tell your peer AE to accept it and if they can’t, you tell your boss, and if that boss can’t, then you get the boss’s boss and eventually you get the CEO. I don’t care. If it’s a qualified meeting, somebody has to take it and you know this, Richard, because you do fantastic work for us. And I’ve told several of our SDRs do not reschedule, right? Do not reschedule and I will take care. I will make sure that those salespeople take it.

Ryan Bott:

So, when that’s first happening, I just want to throw that in that interaction is critical. At some point, you have to make a qualification, whether it’s BANT or ANUM. BANT is Budget, Authority, Need, Timeline. ANUM was, I don’t remember fully, ANUM, because we don’t use it but what was… I can’t remember the…

Simon Hazeldine:

They’re all versions of a theme, right?

Ryan Bott:

An acronym and now I’m forgetting what ANUM and people are going to… All the listeners say, “All right, you should know this,” but anyway, look that one up, but we just haven’t used it. We use BANT and so you get to that point where it’s qualified, that moment is critical. I have managed both sides and I see the pain on both sides. If the SDR doesn’t truly fill out a lot of information, there aren’t great notes.

Ryan Bott:

Especially if you have transactional sale that needs to be fully filled out. There needs to be real qualification criteria. There needs to be a clean information in salesforce and as much of it as you can. And I understand when a sales rep, a lot of time gets into a meeting or gets on the phone call and says, “Oh, there’s nothing, there’s not much here,” or “I wasn’t prepared, or “We screwed up that meeting because the SDR didn’t do their job. I get all that and I know that’s painful and that is a waste of time so that has happened on the SDR side.

Ryan Bott:

On the sales side, they’re not closed deals. They’re not handing you a closed deal. And how often do we, well, that’s a waste of time. They’ll take one look, and they’ll say, “Heh,” and basically the problem I have with a lot of sales attitude about an SDR and qualified lead is they basically come to a conclusion that’s not correct and the conclusion is, well, that’s not what I would find and they’re literally putting it in context of themselves only.

Ryan Bott:

Well, it’s not really one, I wouldn’t have got that and I’m telling you, be a little open minded to know, maybe it’s not perfect, but at least have the conversation and you really only… At most, you wasted what half an hour? If you can call it a waste and by the way, then as you finish the conversation, ask for more leads or, “Hey, you’re not the right person or this didn’t seem to be quite a fit. Who do you know?”

Simon Hazeldine:

Yeah, and always extracting the maximum. I mean, Richard, as Ryan said, this is an area that durhamlane are specialists in. Your comments on that handover process and how to make sure. I guess the leads aren’t wasted is possibly.

Richard Lane:

Yeah, we’d love more clients like Ryan telling the AEs that make the call, it cannot get moved. Ryan’s absolutely right. The effort that goes into creating a qualified, meaningful opportunity is significant. At durhamlane, we use Magic 35, which is our qualification tool. You might call it BANT plus so it’s BANT plus a few other things.

Richard Lane:

I think there are some really interesting value ads that can happen during the process of handover and as we are collecting all of our information, and then we send that over to the sales, the account manager. They should be using some of that insight and dropping it into the next conversation that they have, to demonstrate that there has been a transition of information and knowledge because even if it’s subconsciously the potential customer will go, these guys have actually spoken, that’s a good thing.

Richard Lane:

So, I think that’s really important. The other thing I would say is please always, always, always, always give feedback whether it’s a great meeting, whether it’s an okay meeting, whether it’s a meeting with a next step and an outcome, or whether it’s not a great meeting. We need to know because the person’s put a lot of effort into creating it. We want to create the best meetings possible and continually improve and the only way you do that is with feedback.

Simon Hazeldine:

And also, I think to keep motivating the person who’s filling your pipeline with these leads, right? So, let’s best build a really good working relationship, right?

Richard Lane:

I mean, that is the weirdest thing. We don’t have many anymore, but we’ve had customers in the past that have not told us ever the outcome of any of the opportunities that we’ve created for them. And then we find out through someone else that they’ve closed significant revenues and they didn’t want to tell us because we were an outsourced supplier to them, which is sort of absolutely crazy, right? So, it’s just nuts but we haven’t got those customers anymore, luckily, but we’ve had them in the past. So, just got to be open and transparent.

Simon Hazeldine:

Ryan, I thought it’s a great point about accept it because you’ve never seen a rearranged meeting work and I wonder sometimes when I’m working with sales folks, I’ll say to them, “You know what the customer experience is during the selling process is what they think it’s going to be like working with you if they buy from you.” And if two of your people can’t even coordinate a diary that doesn’t look like you’ve very joined up or if you’re badly prepared for the meeting or you clearly have not as Richard saying done any of your homework before you go in that creates a dreadful what we might call a first impression, I guess.

Ryan Bott:

Oh exactly. You see, there’s going to be a bit of a context behind this. One of the reasons that I don’t accept price as a valid reason that we lost a deal, I just don’t. Salespeople stand up in this so we lost because of price, I don’t accept that and the reason why is because price is a function of value. So, I perceive price, right? I perceive the value of something, I’m willing to pay. I pay for this phone because I pay what in US dollars here it’s been $1,200 for the latest iPhone maybe more and of course my carrier subsidizes some of that, but that’s what it costs. And if I would’ve looked at this device 20 years ago and said, “You will pay $1,200.” I would’ve, there’s no way and looking at it from the outset, it just as an object, it’s completely invaluable but the more I move, the more I interact with it.

Ryan Bott:

I start to perceive that there is a real value there and that’s the perception of value but that’s controlled. The perception is controlled by basically three inputs, right? One is the perception of the outcome of the product. Okay, what can it get me? What can it do? Two is the perception of the company I’m working with. Well, do I like Apple? Are they a good company? Are they ethical? Will they stand by it? Will they have customer support? Will they do what they say? Is there a good reputation there? Do other people use Apple? And then three is the perception of the person I’m working with. So, if I go to the store and I perceive that this person’s smart and knows what they’re doing is interactive is well-educated is not lying to me.

Ryan Bott:

Then I can basically justify the price in my mind. So, it’s the perception of the outcome, of the company, and of the person I’m working with. And that gets really important so now I have to talk about what you said, what we talked about is they’re judging you as a salesperson. The minute, the second you jump on that phone, on that line, they’re making judgements about you. They’re making perceptions about you. They’re making perceptions about your company and when you miss a meeting, for example, they absolutely add up unequivocally, add up this company probably does this to other people.

Ryan Bott:

This person’s probably not reliable and so you have to realize that they are making a judgment call the second they’re interacting with you and your brand, you as a person and your brand as a company and every interaction has to be spot on. We live in a consumer mentality, an enterprise buyer with consumer mentality world, that’s where we’ve shifted to, thanks to technology. We are dealing with enterprise buyers that have a consumer mentality, and there’s no way around that. So, structure your process in a consumer mentality, realize that when you go to the shopping store, right? I mean, everything is set up in a certain pattern and the display to meet your demands as a consumer, that’s what they want.

Simon Hazeldine:

It’s a fascinating way to think about. I mean, I know that we all buy online as consumers and that shapes what we want from our B2B suppliers as well so that’s a great way to think about it. When I do negotiation workshops, we sometimes bring in a very, very experienced procurement professional to do a little bit of a session with the sales guys and talk about life, get inside the head of a proper, big procurement, like a hundred million dollars spend kind of person. And I remember us saying to a group of salespeople, “Yeah, price will typically be something we consider, but it’s very rarely the only thing we consider.” She said, “Sometimes it’s not actually very important.” And I remember looking at this, the jaws dropping in the room and one of the guys said, “Well, why do you always keep asking for a discount?” She said, “Well, do you blame me?”

Ryan Bott:

Exactly.

Simon Hazeldine:

Do you blame me, right? What do you think? Because nearly most of the time I ask, I get, right? She said, “Unless I’m dealing with somebody who’s working differently.” So, but yeah, I just remember all of these, she said, “What about price?” So, that sort of change that’s taking place with our customers. What’s the one for you? What’s the next evolution for the sales animal? I mean, I know we’ve had a lot of people we’ll talk about what’s happened with the COVID pandemic and the sudden shift but broader than that, what would you see? Where would you see professional salespeople needing to be moving towards in the future?

Ryan Bott:

Yeah. Well, there’s a couple major trends and if you read Gartner McKenzie, CEB, well, CEB’s now part of Gartner. Forrester, they’re all sort of on the same pathways and one is just the virtualization of sales. So, we can’t ignore that trend that’s happening, it means that sales have gone much more digital. So, we’re toying with the word, we’re just changing all of our inside sales and calling them digital sales. So, so really shifting off of the entire word and just calling them digital sellers and we think it will do a couple things for the profile of hiring that we’re going after but if you really think of digital selling. Now I’m moving all the way from the pre-human experience to now, I’m interacting with the human and so it’s sort of subtle.

Ryan Bott:

They get online, they’re looking then all of a sudden the chat pops up and there are other creative things beyond chat right now that can work, right? Even just scheduling a chat is kind of an interesting topic, but you get that whole, or for example, chat bots and just calling out, “Hey, I’m not a person, I’m a chat bot, but I’ve got a library of 10,000 answers. Let me see if I can help you first.” That moves them towards the human, if you will. And then they get that live interaction at some point and that’s really interesting to think through. What I will say on that part of it though, is you don’t know what your client or customer wants until you ask them.

Ryan Bott:

I was on a really interesting panel recently, where we were debating back and forth if salespeople are going to survive. If salespeople be around in 20 years and this really smart woman next to us that she was in charge of digital marketing, she just paused the conversation, the debate and said, “Well have you asked the client what experience they want? Did they want to work with the salesperson?” And we both were like, “Huh, that’s a really good idea,” that’s quite brilliant, but it was so true. How often do we debate about our process? Oh, we’ve got this big map of the sales process. Well, where’s the map of the customer experience, right? Who cares about your sales process? Folks on your customer experience and by the way, it better be the experience they want.

Ryan Bott:

So, go ask 50 prospects and we did this by the way. I just recently were launching a new division of a new product in the company, new services and we went and interviewed and we said, we showed him our process and said, “For fun, tell us the experience you want?” And it does this line up and there were about six places out of 25 points. And they said, “That’s not what I do. That’s not what we want,” and we were able to adjust.

Ryan Bott:

It was really quite powerful because they helped us, tell us what experience they want. But one is just the digitization of selling. You’ve all got to be prepared for that and we know that the second I would add to that is the deal size is moving much higher. So, people are willing to transact now instead of sort of say 500,000 or sorry, it was about 280 pre-pandemic. Now it’s 38% of buyers are willing to transact over a million. I’ll just say, Euro, in this case, million Euro completely digital without ever seeing me live. I mean, they’ll see us virtually, but so that’s quite a major shift that everyone’s got to be prepared for.

Simon Hazeldine:

Because you often see this, that very simple but powerful question. Have you asked your customers because you see a huge amount of mind reading going on, don’t you? Our customers are never going to spend more than half a million bucks digitally, right? How do you know? It’s just like, “Yeah, I’ve read their mind, right?”

Ryan Bott:

Exactly.

Simon Hazeldine:

Unless you’ve got some psychics on your team, that’s going to be highly unlikely that it’s happening.

Richard Lane:

I think some of some, they haven’t even thought about what their customer wants at all, right? So, it’s probably not even mind reading. It’s just having not thought about it at all.

Simon Hazeldine:

Yeah, and Richard for you, where do you see with, in terms of the comments Ryan’s made about what he’s potentially seeing those changes in demand for the customer?

Richard Lane:

So, I’ve been sort of thinking futures over the last couple of weeks for a durhamlane’s perspective and I will say now I’m totally agreeing with all of this, but I think the rise of voice and AI for my business will be fascinating because I think it started already from an inbound perspective in terms of if I call my bank, I give them my name and my postcode and they know it’s me because they recognize my voice and I’m probably already speaking to people that aren’t actually people and I’m getting triaged with voice.

Richard Lane:

I think taking that to an outbound context, probably isn’t that far away. Imagine how many dials could be made by a machine, not a call dialer, but by an actual machine that is asking probing questions or understanding who’s at this company in this role, position, et cetera. So, I think that’s going to be a huge shift and a fascinating area and one that I need to educate myself on.

Simon Hazeldine:

Yeah. I mean, I think that applies to everybody. So, we got to try to get ahead of the curve I think on all these things.

Ryan Bott:

I think the other thing I would add though, is that also that back to the consumer mentality. We’ve never seen anything quite like this. We have all been taught how to purchase because of iPhones and Amazon, right? And that is a very unique shift to sort of humanity, the enterprise buyer. We’re all conditioned that way, so the acid test, the way you can tell is you go buy a product, right?

Ryan Bott:

So, Richard, go buy products for your company and look at how you want the interaction and I bet you’re leaning. I bet you’ll pick up on things that you do that say, make it easy, make it seamless, make it like this, make it like clicking a button and we all have to adjust to that mentality. I’m toying with writing more about this topic, because it’s so fascinating to me, which is taking all of the consumer behavior.

Ryan Bott:

Basically, the consumer and marketers, truly. I think they have a leg up. They figured out how to brand a product and make it really easy to procure. That mentality is going to work really well in figuring out how to sell and all our minds, whether they, we admit or not are all moving in that direction, so we need to make it that easy.

Simon Hazeldine:

I’m running a session with some non-salespeople around customer experience piece. They’re trying to help them to feel a bit more comfortable and I will always mention when you shop with Amazon, you never wonder what’s going on. You know at all times what is happening and that’s what your customers want from you. They’re not prepared to wait. Now they want to know what is happening at all times and we’re all like you say, we’re all being influenced by that. The Amazon effect, I suppose it might be referred to us.

Ryan Bott:

And maybe one last point on that. If you take that one step further, what is it that we used to validate? For example, in Amazon, we do two things. We check references, we look at the feedback scores, and we look to see what will it accomplish? Does this actually work? I need to buy a new hammer. Does this hammer… I don’t know. How large is it? Will it actually do the job for framing the house that I need? And I look all through that description to see… I look for outcomes. I’m buying outcomes and then I’m checking references so, I make sure that they’re not lying to me.

Ryan Bott:

Those are the main two things I’m doing. Price? Yeah, maybe. But I’d rather get something that has better reviews and is going to accomplish what I need and pay a little higher price. That’s the exact same behavior that our enterprise buyers have.

Simon Hazeldine:

Yeah, and not understanding what the customer’s outcome is going to be a real recipe for sales failure because that’s what they’re buying, right? And if you don’t know, because you haven’t asked the question. I mean, I think back to the ask your customer, that is probably a piece of endless, timeless wisdom that would apply throughout the entire sales process and beyond. So, that is wonderful, Ryan, thank you very much for just conscious of your time and thank you so much for sharing all of your insights and thoughts and ideas. It’s been absolutely fantastic to have you with us. Richard, any closing comments from you?

Richard Lane:

Well, I love the three Ps, Ryan. So, for anyone listening, thinking about sales, leadership, and how to really make an impact on their business, then pipeline productivity and product. So, I think some greater things to focus on and like you say, get those three right and it happens. So, yeah, thank you, Ryan.

Ryan Bott:

Yeah.

Richard Lane:

Wonderful.

Ryan Bott:

Yeah, thank you. It’s been a real pleasure. Appreciate all that durhamlane does and thank you, Simon.

Simon Hazeldine:

It’s been our pleasure. Thanks very much for having you with us on this episode of The Insiders sales and marketing podcast.

Speaker 1:

The Insiders by durhamlane, subscribe today to never miss an episode.