Richard Lane: Welcome to the Insiders by durhamlane, an industry podcast that connects the worlds of marketing and sales one guest at a time. I’m your host Richard Lane, Co-Founder and Chief Commercial Officer here at durhamlane. Today I’m thrilled to be joined by Mark Green.

Mark is the EMEA Vice President of Domo, not only a supplier to us but also a customer and I like to say really a partner. First a little bit about Domo. Domo is a cloud-based intelligence SaaS platform helping companies gather and transform raw data stored across one or more databases or repositories and converting that into focus reports, dashboards and graphs that can be used for business analysis.

As I mentioned durhamlane is a customer of Domo, we’re using Domo’s platform and suddenly we’re starting to really understand the value of the data that we hold across a number of different areas and it’s delivering huge value back to us. Mark, firstly great to have you on the show and thanks for being with us.

Mark Green: Pleasure, thank you, great to be here.

Richard: And in person we should say, so often these calls are sort of over Teams or something like that but it’s just wonderful to be in a room together recording this. And the topic for today Mark is getting more from marketing, so both sales and marketing professionals working together and that alignment is such a critical thing. So we’re going to sort of talk around how do we get more from marketing from both the marketing and the sales angle is the intent really and hopefully leave our listeners with some valuable insights and actions that they can take away to improve the performance of their organisation.

So perhaps to get us started, I think we all know that sales and marketing alignment has been a topic of discussion for many years. What can Teams actually do to make it work, to have an impact? And have you got any examples from your world or previous worlds where it’s worked particularly well for you?

Mark: Yes and well start with thank you for having me, lovely to be up here. Yeah you mentioned the partnership, so we’re on site with you guys today building that relationship out, so great to see where that goes.

Yes as I’ve been in the, so running the region now, vice president of the region for a mere four, six, seven months now, but my background and my history has always been marketing. So I’ve always had that alignment piece front and centre. Arguably I think the internal performance, i.e the way you turn up with your sales teams, makes marketing effective and if that connection isn’t there I think so much is lost.

But in the role in the last six, seven months where so much of the business is augmented at sales and sales performance, it’s a real good chance to see it through the other lens. It’s a really interesting question and I think consistency is probably the most important thing, whether it’s in the data that you’re looking at, whether it’s in the activities and campaigns that you’re working on, or whether it’s just the day-to-day relationships and communication. I think where I’ve seen it fail is it’s not consistent in the way the teams approach each other.

And consistency in the sense of a management level, nothing worse than sitting in a room as a marketing leader with a sales leader in front of a business leader, a VP, and what performance has come through today, what the numbers for the week, and you and your sales leader as a marketeer are arguing over leads. Where’s this come from? Where’s this? That alignment immediately, if you guys can’t work it out, how can I trust that anything’s working? So I think there’s that consistency in the way you show up and ultimately I think that leads to the data. And genuinely this isn’t a plug at what we do today, but having a data platform that enables everyone accessing that relationship, that alignment to be looking at the same things all the time.

So when you are back in front of that vice president, that leader, and you’re looking at 20 leads generated over the last month, and you are in lock stop with the sales leader on where they’ve come from, then you’re working what’s good and you’re changing what’s bad. And then ultimately I think that measurement then naturally comes from it. The alignment then is around, well, let’s do more of what’s working and let’s change what’s not.

And then suddenly the thing changes. And I think if that at the root level of management then disseminates down to the A’s, you know, the sales professionals working along the field marketeers, I think it all lines up. So I think it can be overcomplicated, but if the data’s in the right place, the alignment’s there, communication is good, and it’s consistent, I think the alignment, that’s my example, I think.

And certainly in the last seven months when I’ve sat looking perhaps back into that relationship, we’ve always been lucky here because the teams, I bought that to Domo when I joined, let’s just make sure this relationship works, overcommunicate with each other. So yeah, I think alignment is really around those things. So alignment and consistent alignment.

Richard: Completely right, yeah. It’s interesting, I mentioned at the top that it’s been a topic of discussion for years, but it does feel like it’s changing because marketing seldom had anything to do with sales back when I started, but now there is this sort of lockstep and perhaps it’s not always as consistent as it needs to be, but when you get that consistency, I think what you’re saying is then things start to happen, you’ve then got proof points, you can then celebrate those, you can share those with the wider team and it sort of builds momentum in the life of the team.

Mark: Yeah, and again, to your point, if you go back probably not that long ago, 10, 15 years, the source of marketing generation was often events or often being somewhere and we’ll bring leads back to you, Excel sheets of these are the people we spoke to today.

I think the changing nature of it now with the explosion of digital channels means that that source now is live and always on. If we look at even today, our mornings are spent, our SDR, ADM function are looking at leads that have come in overnight, that are constantly evolving and changing during the course of the day. Our features of talk to sales, the AI chat that we operate is bringing conversations in that are live.

So if that relationship isn’t always on, it’s not the proverbial, here’s a bag of leads, put them on the table. So that alignment has to be lockstep all the time because the right feedback from the salespeople working those allows us to adjust the Google spend, for example, and reset what that looks like.

Richard: Absolutely. Maybe just to delve into that a bit more then in terms of shared goals and metrics. So how do you ensure everyone’s working towards the same outcome? Has that been something you’ve had to work on at Domo or is that naturally fitted together?

Mark: Yeah, it’s a great question. I think, I mean, ultimately it’s revenue. As a marketeer, what I was always ultimately measured on was marketing source revenue and then the plethora of the data sets that come under that. But if the goal in 99.9% of businesses that I’ve operated and there’s always been that revenue and the different types of it, is it recurring, non-recurring, is it services, is it software, is it platform? But if you route all that back, where that starts is the source of the lead. If we go back to the example we just gave, a good lead has come through a chat service and that lead has started to work.

There is an expectation on the qualification of that, where that lead’s come from, the ability for me through the sourcing that we’re using to ensure it’s the right conversation. Then I think is where it gets interesting because then the expectation starts to shift more through that qualification period. And I think a lot now of marketing teams tend to have more ownership of that middle function, that ADM function, the development, the online sales, the qualification function.

So I think there’s that, the right lead has come into us through the right source. Then there’s this consistent qualification. And then where I’ve always found it, where the metrics have to be shared is then if that lead has now ticked those proverbial boxes, it now needs to be worked consistently.

It needs to be followed up consistently. Whatever source of qualification we’re going through, it has to be done correctly because there’s only two things that happen now, it can progress or it can disqualify. But progression, you’re bound by time, you’re bound by accuracy, you’re bound by stages.

And if all those things are met correctly, and again, you’ve kind of met in the middle, all that evidence of it getting to a certain stage and disqualifying, I’ve got all that goodness before to go find better ones. But that lead that started with a shake of a hand at an event, it turns out to be that close one revenue. There’s so much goodness in that journey of qualification, how long it stayed at a stage.

And very quickly, what a good marketing ops team do, I think, is realise a stage two up, if it’s longer than three, four days, we’re going to start fading. If the time it takes to convert a stage four to five is three or four conversations, or if you haven’t spoke to the decision maker or the budget owner by conversation four or five, then you need to, you get this plethora of data. And I think if that all aligns, then invariably, you see the right lead coming in, you know, as long as these steps are correctly stepped through, so to speak, it’s we’ve got a good chance of closing.

There’s so much in it. And so many of those steps, I think, are jointly owned. And that’s where it’s, it’s just changed so much from marketing event, bag of leads, off you go sort of thing.

Richard: Yeah. And I’ve always likened sort of the relationship with the passing of the baton. But actually, what we’re saying there is sort of, you’re running together at the same time, you’re supporting each other at the same time.

So it’s less like one person, then the other, then the other. Interestingly, we use HubSpot internally as our CRM platform, and they’ve used through the use of AI there and big data, I guess, they’re now starting to give you insight into their lead score, as in, so to your point, how long has it been at this stage, we typically know through looking at all of the data that if it’s been there for a certain number of days, then it’s less likely to convert than if it’s moved through. So it’s starting to see technology play a role in this as well now, aren’t we?

Mark: Oh, huge. And again, ultimately, you’ve got that, your source data, you’ve got your scoring data, which I think to some extent, it’s like a measurement of heat, isn’t it? And then you’ve got those conversion metrics. And in all of that, you’re absolutely right. The days of the baton, I remember years ago having the conversation about, let’s make the baton as good as we can. That was a thing. It was-

Richard: The handover.

Mark: The quality of the handover. Exactly. Now you’re absolutely right. It feels now, marketing, certainly where we are today, marketing are involved to that point of closing.

I know we’ll probably, and I’m sure we’ll talk about content, but again, the same thing. It’s not the event is finished. There’s the collateral. This is what the business does. It’s right the way through now to the very end of that journey. So it’s less baton, more holding hands right the way through.

Richard: We need to find a new analogy, don’t we?

Mark: Yeah, it’s not a baton anymore.

Richard: I mean, I think we just chatting pre-recording, we were both talking about some of the war stories around tracking and attribution. In our world, one thing that I say to our people very clearly now is if we’re not in CRM, we’re dead.

When we’re creating qualified ops on behalf of our customers, if they’re not visible and trackable, then when the CFO asks for a return on investment, and they press a button and there’s nothing there, and it’s all held in a spreadsheet somewhere else, you’re immediately on the back foot. So really important to be in there. How are you seeing attribution change or be co-owned between those functions?

Mark: Yeah, that’s a really, that example you gave there, maybe I alluded that a little bit at start with the idea of sitting, you know, that internal credibility I have to have at the start.

And if you’re sat looking at data from a CRM, and I’m, you know, this is what I believe we’ve worked this week, and the sales guy thinks different, and it’s all down to leads being tagged incorrectly, or something’s been closed, lost and reopened. I think there’s an integrity and an accuracy of Salesforce at CRM, to your point with HubSpot, exactly the same. But I think the attribution and the attachment, I tend to, through that exactly what we just talked about there, that journey of measurement, I don’t know how, I mean, looking in the last four or five years, I think the explosion of measurement and the stages, and how you attribute again, the influence of marketing, the heat of the lead, the time at stage, all those things coming together, they become an always on.

And the Eureka moment for me was the, and maybe the idea of sales and marketing coming together, I saw it quicker in operations. Traditionally, there was sales operations and marketing operations. I, in my last five years, have seen that role evolve to just revenue operations.

It’s a thing now. And I think that was where you realise that this isn’t about two fundamental functions working apart. This is just a revenue team.

And we’ve done that at Domo. We’re under a revenue business now. Yes, there are functions of marketing and sales, but we’re all in a revenue group governed by an operations function, the same set of dashboards and reporting. All we’re doing is taking control of different steps in this journey, really.

Richard: Yeah, we’ve done the same thing. So we have a RevOps team. It’s our new business sales team. It’s our marketing team. It’s our team leaders, our customer account managers, all in the same grouping, all driving to the same purpose and towards the same goal.

And even that, again, over the years, when my first role was that was the inbound sales team, and you were inbound sales, and your relationship with marketing was perceived to be the same over the years, I’d be surprised now if more of that qualification function isn’t closely attached to marketing, because you’re closer to that. This is the source. This is exactly where it’s come from.

This is the qualification that we’ve got. Let me take that to another stage before it passes into the journey. So I think that the acceptance now that marketing is not just a baton, let’s make this relationship stronger.

So there’s so much that’s evolved in where that attribution and ownership sits of the data, of course. And it’s interesting, we’re talking both in very similar languages of integrated teams, but we still have customers where the sales team are not connected to marketing, they have their black book. What we create from proactive outbound is seen as a bit hard work, maybe.

So we’re still with those types of customers, we have to work really hard to make sure that that value is understood, because their quality leads, but they’re just coming from a different point than where those individuals are used to coming from.

Mark: I always talk to that, and you always bump into them, and you always meet them. And it’s always, I think, the earliest start of a role where you’ll meet a particular sales leader that maybe doesn’t have that integrated relationship from past experiences.

And it’s not suggesting it’s right or wrong, it’s just different to your point. I think the black book example, and that I don’t need marketing, the way I would always talk to that is, if you in your head, or you could write down on a board now, the perfect sales engagement, all I’m trying to do is get you more of that, my intelligence around the steps to bring that individual in, the steps to nurture them through that journey you’ve just talked about that was perfect, the steps to get them educated, that wonderful meeting that you have where procurement have joined, the room where you’re waiting, where you realise, I’m going to have to get, you know, there’s a finance guy I need in this conversation. And actually, I know that finance guy, because he was at the dinner with us two months ago, all those types of steps, all it’s trying to do, first word we use, consistency.

If you can find a way to blueprint that journey, that’s all marketing is trying to do. And the speed of change in marketing just gives me a plethora of different ways to go and get those experiences. But Mr. Salesperson, that’s all I’m trying to do. In your head, there is a perfect sales experience. I’m just trying to create as many of them for you as possible.

Richard: I’ve just in my head there, we’re your personal shopper.

Mark: Yeah. It really feels like that. And that has always been. And then if it works, you can shout about it. And if it doesn’t work, own up, talk about one or two of those steps that didn’t work, and then work together to make that change and look at it differently. But it just feels, I’ve never seen it as them and us. Yeah, it’s always just been that we want the same thing. And if we you’re right, it’s the it’s the baton thing. It’s gone. That analogy is gone.

Richard: Yeah, absolutely. We’ll get that taken off our website immediately. So it’s already gone. Let’s move on to content. And Mark, you mentioned content a few minutes ago, but how sort of marketing content shifted in terms of what’s required, what works over the last few years?

Mark: I mean, I think, you know, the advent originally, there was it was product content. If I think about the roles I’ve been in in the past, you know, ultimately, there was a product, a service, a piece of software. So a lot of the content was around producing collateral around that. And that would be the connection with sales.

I think then, over the years, the advent of customer marketing, and it was a Eureka moment, I can almost remember my first, why don’t we just talk about other customers that are using it like you. And then that, that gave birth to a whole new, which is probably still, I think, the most relevant. And then as that evolved, bit like the journey of progressing leads different customers, then within that customer, there’s a different persona within that persona, there’s a different use case.

And then suddenly, I think what contents become is probably the most fluid source of marketing. And then when you thought it couldn’t get any more expansive personas, then have a different preferred source. You know, from things like this, from, from podcasting, to digital channels, to LinkedIn, to reading to those one moments on billboards, everything’s so relevant.

So I think the shape of content and being relevant in as many of the channels as possible are correct, but then equally connecting very quickly to the persona that you’re after what the right source of content is the frequency of the content, the delivery of that content, you could risk trying to do too much. But if you know who you’re trying to target, and again, that arguably comes through the conversation with sales, I think you’ve got a good opportunity then to create the right content at the right time.

Richard: Yeah. And yeah, we use that term on the channel a lot, you know, you need to have the brand to be something that’s recognized the message then needs to be tuned. The examples need to be relevant. And that prospect needs to feel like you are the people that may be able to help them in our methodology, selling a high level, we have a number of mantras mantra one is probably still my favourite business value developing long term relationships.

So the business fits got to be there. Otherwise, why would someone work with you, you’ve got to be showing that you can add more value than they’re going to spend with you, because otherwise, that’s not a good return for them. And the sort of bonus is we’re looking for long-term relationships. And if you can sort of sum that up in your content or in your conversations, then people like that, but they all feel it feels right.

Mark: Absolutely. And I that credibility piece, I think the more of those engagements that happen, the more I can talk to at your level, you know what you’re doing, understand the challenge you have give you examples where you know, you’ve struggled with a base ABC, well, here’s a set of customers that we’ve been through that journey with develops that level of trust.

And then I think at the appropriate time, what’s interesting as well, I found with and this is born of content, certainly in the space we’re in today, in the past, I think software, certainly software and technology was about replacing, I’m going to talk to you, because the application I have can do the job yours is doing better. I think now what we see, certainly in the space of data is complimentary, very rarely, I mean, the cases are still there. But more often than not, the role that we can play will complement something you’re doing, right.

And it’s a different type of content. It’s not so much let me show you 10 things we can do that that can’t, it’s more right into the solution that you’re trying to do almost redundant of where you’re working. Let’s look at the space we can come in and add value. So compliment what you’re trying to do. And that subtlety, I think, is born of trust. It’s understanding even more.

So then, wow, you’re not here to break relationships, you’re not here to tell me that something I’ve done for years is perhaps isn’t working, or isn’t good enough. You’re just adding value. And there’s a change in the content to support that as well, I think.

Richard: Yeah, okay. So thinking content, and I’m just sort of thinking back to COVID, when all events stopped, they seem to be coming back. I think events work for organisations. I’m interested in your take around where do you think the value event gone up or gone down for you in terms of the marketing piece of what you do?

Mark: One fabulous question. We’ve talked about this loads. Yeah, if you almost start at the top, the trade show, if you’re getting pre COVID, you know, the kind of big, you know, you’re in the Excel centres, you’re in the Olympia halls, they were just a mainstay, it was almost you got to a place, I think, as a software vendor, where it was, you had to be there, you couldn’t afford not to be there.

It was it was, I always think that was a very negative purchase, because it’s costing us a load, when I was back in my corporate life, it’s costing us a load of money, we get nothing from it. But if we’re not there, you try and not be there, it looks bad. That speaks volumes to where you’re at.

And almost back to the first conversation we had about that, you know, the alignment, you would stand on a stand, you would have gifts to give away, you would have a pitch, and you would look for scans, the metric of success was the amount of people you could talk to and scan, that data would be bought back and farmed. And it just never felt right. It just didn’t feel you’re walking into a room of 100 people, how do I find the four or five that most likely to resonate? And if you could do that, are you saying they’re 95? And I don’t need to speak to? Well, possibly, yes.

And I think COVID helped reset that to some extent. I think now we were at Big Data London recently, and the audience profile has changed. I think the type of people now that are willing to go and engage and spend time there, maybe it’s the data space that’s done that.

So I found the engagements increased. But then in the same breath, the challenges, you are in now a room of potentially two, 300 vendors, all looking to speak to that one kind of economic buyer that’s coming in with a problem that they need solving. So then at that scale, the differentiation and the way you show up really needs to be thought about.

So you’re not just another provider of a service or a technology. So I think it’s challenging that huge. And I don’t think certainly the midsize vendors that there’s a lot of work, I would argue any marketing teams listening to this would be nodding now about how do we be in those events and show up differently.

But moving then perhaps towards the more the intimate events where there’s perhaps then becomes the slightly more conference as opposed to the trade show. So now you’re in a persona or a, you know, this is an event of 100 marketeers who are all talking about media modelling. That’s a good place to be.

Then it comes back to the content that you take the relationships you have there, we find a lot more value in those. And then if you can do it correctly, almost further down is then those almost more bespoke. There are 25 30 of us, we’re going to spend time at a you know, dinner around table, a set of panels, almost an evening with them.

But the quality that’s required to get that right group together, arguably has probably come from those before. So I think it’s in a it’s in a period of flux, the bounce back from COVID brought so much interest in again, that I think it almost tipped upside down. Now it’s back on its, you know, it’s the right way up.

So it’d be interesting to see where it settles. But I think there’s still a demand for it. But I would argue now that the slightly more bespoke focus, this is a group of people with a particular problem, the quality of the data in capturing that event audience means it’s right for us, that’s where we probably would see more success now.

Richard: Yeah. And frankly, we should be able to find those people more easily than we ever have. Right. So in terms of being able to put on a very specific focused event, the opportunity to get the right type of that is greater than it’s ever been.

Mark: Yes. And so going to the exhibition is sort of more of a spread the net as well as I can, whereas, actually, you’re more spear phishing when you get into the smaller groups. Yeah, absolutely. Right. And no surprise is we’ve, you know, as we targeted the pharmaceutical space, but you also find we’ve had a lot of success selling our service and platform to marketers.

They’re the perfect audience for us. So if you take the pharmaceutical community where we’re particularly successful and you think about a mixed media modeling message into that group, it’s a reasonably contained group of professionals working in marketing roles in these pharmaceutical spaces. So one, the audience is pretty contained.

So if you can get there with a good point of view, it’s great. But then the next event, it’s the same group again. So not only are you relevant, you’re becoming then senior again, senior again.

So you create consistency in your messaging. You create that trust, that credibility. As soon as you start to do more business with one or two of these, you’re then using their stories to populate what you’re doing.

Then you’re on stage, then you’re speaking with them. So this momentum begins. So again, I think you’re right. It’s that data allows you to be more specific. And then if you’re successful, that community just grows around you.

Richard: Yeah, absolutely. Loads of takeaways in that, I think, for listeners. What advice can you give to sales individuals or sales teams in terms of how they can provide useful feedback to marketing?

Mark: I think feedback is the start. So just any? Yeah. Yeah, I think it’s… Just give some at least. And again, so speak positive. We have a great sales team now.

And I would argue in conversations with them, oh, that was frustrating. That perhaps didn’t work as well. There’s no hostility. There’s no animosity. It just didn’t work. That lead wasn’t good enough.

Has that gone back to the probably not as good as it should have been? So if there’s feedback and the feedback’s consistent, and it can be transparent, I would encourage a group of salespeople to sit with a group of marketeers. Let’s talk about the event last week. Let’s talk about the campaign last month.

Let’s talk about last week’s digital performance, what worked, what didn’t. And if you bring the two together, so feedback can be really positive. I met this chap from ABC International at that event.

It’s progressing beautifully. Help me find more of them. Positive as opposed to we met this lady at DEF International, the wrong fit.

I don’t know why they came to the… Whatever the engagement was, let’s try and move away from that. So I think the balance of feedback, good and bad, it just needs to be on and consistent. And from being a leader, I always tried very quickly to build those relationships right the way through the sales org to come and share that with me.

And then it becomes trustworthy. And then that whole point, as we said at the start, we did it together. It’s a revenue team.

Then you realize that actually, I can talk to you because if I talk to you about the good stuff, you find me more of it. And equally, I can help you spend, invest in things that aren’t working because ultimately, it’s for me. Yeah, that’s a salesperson. What you’re doing is for me. So let’s tune this together. So I just think it’s a consistent thing more than anything.

Richard: I mean, that’s a really great point because I think perhaps in the past, there still will be some, but too many salespeople have seen marketing as an inconvenience and as a burden. Whereas actually, when you’re part of the same revenue team, which you are, whether it’s by title or not, you are, then you help each other to be successful for each other. And actually, if you’re encouraging people to find you the right type of prospect who’s in the right buying zone or whatever stage they’re in, then you will be more successful.

So it’s really sort of arming your troops, isn’t it? And I’ve always thought as a sales professional, it is my own business. It’s my own P&L. I’ve always felt like that. And this is, I co-own this company. But actually, when I was a sales contributor, I always saw it as, this is my business. Therefore, empower the people around you to make it as successful as possible.

Mark: Oh, completely. I remember my first, this was a couple of roles ago, but it was my first perhaps senior role in marketing. And the CEO at the time said, be really comfortable being a sales support function.

And he laughed saying, I don’t know if you want to take that to the marketing team. And I made the decision to do exactly that. That’s what we are.

And it’s not a detriment to marketing as a function. It’s not to belittle anything we do. But if we’re comfortable with this notion that it’s a sales support mechanism, it’s what we’re providing every day, good and bad, indifferent, then you’re very quickly.

And where it’s iterated, I think, in exactly as we’ve mentioned a few times, it’s a revenue team. Wherever it comes from, however, it’s good and bad. That’s what we’re all here to do.

Richard: Well, and team is the word, isn’t it? Whether it’s a team of two of you or a team of 400 of you, then play like a team. You’re going to win.

Mark: Yeah, absolutely.

Richard: Excellent. Well, look, final question. It’s a bit of a biggie, Mark. So just to get you ready. But what would you say the biggest B2B marketing trends that sales teams should pay attention to in 2025? Is there anything that stands out to you?

Mark: For us, I think it’s a really good question. I think there’s a couple of things. The explosion, I think, of digital marketing, and to some extent, the influence AI has had on that, has taken a real positive step towards almost that we call new logo marketing. So the creation of new leads and new opportunities. I think where we’re seeing, where I’m seeing a lot of trending now, both in the distribution of spend and activity for us, is back into that core ABM.

So strengthening relationships and a bit like the real sense of attribution. Exactly where is the investment that we’ve made? That’s the science, I think, that marketers have always been after. I think good cross-selling and up-selling.

Genuinely being in an account with an AE, with a team, allowing marketing at the right time to influence growth within an account. I think traditionally now the licensing models are changing. So this phrase of adoption.

So you’re ultimately going into a business, giving them access to everything, and we will make money as a business now as you consume more, as you use more credits, as you use more of the application. So I think where marketing now is being challenged is more of those adoption strategies. We are in the door.

We’ve won the business. Thank you. It doesn’t seem that long ago, whereas a marketeer, right, let’s find the next one.

Now I think increasingly more of the energy is we’re in now. How do we get across that business? How do we get the use case that we have absolutely secure and enabled? And then how does that new case grow across the business? Because I think software platforms now, it’s about renewal. It’s about adoption.

It’s about longevity. And I think marketing now has to play more of a role in that. So I think more of the trending I see is in almost adoption as a service, as a marketeer.

How do I help you use more of it? Whilst with my left eye, I’m finding another one like you. So I think that becomes more and more powerful, I think.

Richard: Having that marketing engagement throughout the lifecycle of that customer, helping not just to retain, but to grow and to expand is when you are working as a true team, isn’t it?

Mark: Yeah. In the last, I would say, two years, 18 months, the concept of adoption within accounts is the biggest thing that I talk about, I worry about. And now leading the business, that’s how we will be successful. Of course, there is new logo business.

We have to generate new business. But adopting the service we provide across accounts consistently is the future of, I think, any software application.

Richard: Absolutely. Look, it’s been wonderful talking to you, Mark. Got you in the office, grabbed you into the podcast room. We’ve done this off the cuff. So you’ve been brilliant. So thank you. Brilliant guest for us.

We’ve talked about quite a few topics, I think, within the world of sales and marketing and getting more from marketing from a sales perspective. I think the words that tend to have come up a lot is the word consistency, the word integration, the word team.

We’ve thrown the baton analogy out of the window, which I think was a great point which was made there. We’ve talked about revenue operations, content being fluid and following the customer on the journey or the prospect on the journey and then a little bit there around how marketing not just help with that net-new aspect but from the retention and the growth and the expansion of customers.